They are not Faithful to Christ who Oppose the Pope.
They are not Faithful to Christ who Oppose the Pope.
They are not Faithful to Christ who Oppose the Pope.
They are not Faithful to Christ who Oppose the Pope.
They are not Faithful to Christ who Oppose the Pope.
They are not Faithful to Christ who Oppose the Pope.
They are not Faithful to Christ who Oppose the Pope.
They are not Faithful to Christ who Oppose the Pope.
They are not Faithful to Christ who Oppose the Pope.
the reproach of Christ 
It would be nice if some creative person would add a melody to your post, so that we few (on the internet, anyway) who believe in the Indefectibility of the Church and the Pope, could sing it as our anthem.
As a minor offering: after providentially stumbling on The Reproach of Christ blog, and regaining my faith, which Dr. ‘Luther’ Marshall had sadly eroded, I found myself mentally singing Nat King Cole’s theme song ‘Unforgettable’, but with one word changed…
The result— “Indefectible…that’s what you are/ Indefectible…though near or far…”
I know, it’s silly, but still an expression of faith in Christ and his promises.
That is amusing and also good and faithful. I’m glad I had some small role, aside from the main role of grace and providence, in renewing your faith. What happened, if you don’t mind sharing?
I’ll try to keep it short, so here is a quick version: I did not have the internet in my home for about seven years, because I felt it made me waste a lot of time which would be better spent reading books, studying the Bible, and praying. Plus other pursuits, like getting outside, visiting old relatives, etc. When the lockdown suddenly isolated me in March 2020, I decided to get connected as I had abundant spare time.
I found my way to Catholic Youtube right away, and as I am a natural conservative, I started daily checking of Traditionalist channels like T. Marshall, Return to Tradition, Restoring the Faith, Rights and Duties, Tradition in Action, etc. I rather fell into their mindset, very much against Vatican 2 and very rude about Pope Francis, until I was jarred by the antisemitism that I perceived leaking out of some of them. And on further investigation, I found more than just a hint of antisemitism, I found a lot of very nasty hatred of Jews on some of these channels, and much, much worse on some other Traditionalist channels that I won’t name. I believe that God loves the Jews for the sake of the Fathers, the holy root, and that one day all Israel will be saved, as St. Paul tells us in his letter to the Romans. And so I detest antisemitism, and all other forms of racism, some of which also appeared on some of these channels, to my dismay and discouragement.
At this point, I dropped watching all of these, except for Marshall, as he has never shown even a hint of disparagement of Jews. I watched him regularly, his channel is very entertaining. I didn’t take the sensationalistic stuff — Satan in the Church, Baphomet, the Antichrist , demonic infiltration — too seriously. It was the continual reporting of scandals and corruption in the priesthood and the Curia that got to me. Marshall was not making this up, it was all corroborated by staid Catholic journalists like Pentin and Condon. Long story short — after a steady diet of this, with no positives, no reasons offered to stay Catholic, being told daily to resist the Pope, I thought, “What am I doing in such a corrupt organization? Even my ‘Peter’s Pence’ offering may have gone to infamous purposes!” And I decided to just stay home on Sundays ( the Churches were all closed here then, anyway) and not to return to the Catholic Church after the lockdown ended. I always pray for a strong and a true faith, and I was ready to go to whichever denomination the Lord pointed me toward.
Fortunately, just then I came across The Reproach of Christ. I had never heard the word ‘Indefectibility’ before, and certainly had not heard of the dogma of the Indefectibility of the Church. Now I could read about Our Lord’s promises to Peter, and about the Papal and conciliar documents backing them up. I had never seen such a strong defence of the Papal authority and the Magisterium. Avid reading of blog archives and current posts got me back on track — thanks be to God!
Enough about me! But I am very grateful for all the fine work that you do, Ron, it has literally been a Godsend to me.
Thanks for sharing that, P.J. It is encouraging to me to know that my work is having some good effects. I appreciate it.
I had a similar trajectory as PJ. I converted to generic Christianity from agnosticism in 2012, and this was in part due to the influence of Gregorian Chant. I had long taken the view that no one really takes religion seriously, but chants like Dies Irae helped disabuse of that notion. I was raised Catholic and went to Mass weekly with my family through first communion without having learned much of anything – indeed, I recall being stunned during my secular high school’s AP European History class that Catholics believed in transubstantiation. My worldview in high school reflected the views of Carl Sagan, not the Church. I remember going to Mass two or three times during my college career, and foolishly telling my Lutheran friend who had a Catholic education to come to communion with me that ‘its okay to go, everyone does’.
Anyway, a Protestant friend told me I couldn’t be Christian on my own and I had to join a faith community. I ended up going back to the Catholic Church, because ‘they believe in Jesus just like everyone else’ and went to RCIA for confirmation, and stayed on the team in years that followed, in part to learn, in part to be ‘young blood’ for future Catechumens as I was in my twenties and the average age of the team was probably about sixty. After I had been confirmed, the RCIA leader, our pastoral associate, asked me to be a Eucharistic Minister. I read up on it and decided that I, with a live in girlfriend, probably shouldn’t be allowed to receive at all. When I told her this, she said “okay, let me know if you change your mind!” The RCIA group had other problems: for example, a Catechumen said her child was upset by being told about Sunday Mass obligation, and the group said that ‘oh no, don’t worry about that, that’s not necessary’. It was also told to us that the multiplication of fishes and loaves might have really been all about the importance of sharing what people already had with them.
Long story short, I already mentioned Gregorian Chant, so when I found out that a Mass that had Gregorian Chant was being offered, I started going to it and it was exactly what I needed. The music didn’t seem old and sappy, but timeless. Over time, as I got into the Mass with a Missal, I found myself praying more than I had at the Novus Ordo – the Vetus Ordo seems to me to be a more prayerful Mass, and this, more than the Latin per se, is what I prefer most about it. The abuses and problems I noticed around my Novus Ordo parish weren’t present at the Vetus Ordo parish. I was disappointed at how little I was taught about Catholicism, both as a child and even in RCIA. As I learned more and more about Catholicism online, I eventually found traditionalist sites and also sedevacantists, who aside from seeming to really enjoy problems in the Church seemed to make good points. It took two books, True or False Pope, and the Sedevacantist Delusion, to shake me off of the road to sedevacantism. However, I was still troubled with some things Pope Francis said or did, particularly around the time of Amoris Laetitia. I had a hard time being able to understand in a faithful way why the Church looked different in 2016 than 1916. Your posts on the Papacy, Amoris Laetitia, and other topics were very helpful in grounding me. You and other authors helped me to detach my conservatism from Catholicism (indeed, there’s a lot about Catholicism even from a traditional perspective which is antithetical to modern American political conservatism) and attenuated my American instinct to rebel against authority I find displeasing.
Sorry if this was a bit long.
Good comment, not too long. The problem with the traditionalist movement is that they say to new converts, “Look, we reject contraception and abortion and other grave sins; we have a more beautiful traditional worship service.” But that turns into, “We are the most faithful; why is the Pope trying to teach or correct us? We should be correcting the Pope….Vatican II teaches heresy…the conservative answer to every theological question is the correct answer….the Popes have gone astray and only traditionalism is indefectible”. They do not have the errors of the left, but they have errors that are at least as bad. It’s like the Pharisee praying in the Temple, thanking God that he lacks the sins of the repentant tax collector, but not being able to acknowledge his own sins.
One other quick comment: it wasn’t just that I was used to the Catholic Church and that’s why I came back – I started RCIA after reading about the Fathers and I could see that the historical Church looked nothing like modern American generic Christianity or nondenominational Protestantism. Due to the Fathers, despite recognition of myself as a Latin, I developed a great appreciate for Eastern Christianity and a tolerance for legitimate diversity with respect to worship and other things to preserve unity. My confirmation name is from St. Polycarp, because he was an Eastern Father who was able to preserve unity with Rome during the quartodeciman controversy. This background is another reason why I’m sad over TC, even if I can understand why the Pope might have deemed it necessary.
The TLM is not going to go away. I see that is the intention of the Pope, but I don’t think it will happen. And he is right to correct the errors in traditionalism.
justin1745:
There is nothing in the Novus Ordo that prohibits either Gregorian chant, or celebrating the Mass in Latin (or at least some parts of the Mass in Latin). Of course, neither will be suitable for the typical small parish, and many Catholics will have different sensitivies than you do (which is fine). But in most larger cities, then there are likely to be celebrations of the NO Mass which you find to your taste.
Reply to Justin1745 — We do seem to have a lot in common! I also love Gregorian chant, and I am pleased that I recently .came across the Youtube channel of a group of Catholic siblings called ‘Harpa Dei’. They sing chants and prayers, and it is like a foretaste of Heaven!
Also, I was baptized into an Eastern rite church, with the liturgy in Old Church Slavonic, and unchanged for a millennium. Because of distance and my having to travel on public transit, I usually attend a nearby ‘regular’ Catholic Church. However, all the recent controversy about the ‘lax’ Novus Ordo churches, and the ‘strict’ traditional TLM churches, plus your comments above about the Eastern churches, has made me realize how fortunate I am to belong to a rite with an ancient liturgy. I am resolving to make an effort to attend my Byzantine rite church more regularly. It has the lovely name “Protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church”, which I find comforting!
Thanks again , Ron, for letting us have some friendly chat here. It is nice to take a break from all the seriousness sometimes. I have always enjoyed the creative ( if sometimes a bit unintelligible) posts you get from Mr. Sunimal Fernando, the James Joyce of Goa, and your courteous and patient replies!