My Critique of Fr. James Altman

NOTE: Comments are now closed on this post. There’s just too much malice and too little regard for the teaching of Jesus coming from Altman’s supporters.

I happened upon the video in this manner. First, I saw a news story, that mentioned this tweet:

Bishop J. Strickland
As the Bishop of Tyler I endorse Fr Altman’s statement in this video. My shame is that it has taken me so long. Thank you Fr Altman for your COURAGE. If you love Jesus & His Church & this nation…pleases HEED THIS MESSAGE

And the video is here: Altman on YouTube. The title of the video is: “Fr. James Altman: You cannot be Catholic & a Democrat. Period.” Since this is not a teaching of the Catholic Church, not a teaching of any Roman Pontiff or Ecumenical Council, not a teaching of the Bishops Conference of the United States, it is clearly not a teaching of the Magisterium. This is Fr. Altman’s opinion. However, that does not excuse him. For it is not an opinion merely on politics, but also on the Faith. And the opinion is incorrectly presented as if it were incontrovertible truth of the Faith.

During the Divine Ministry of Jesus Christ, from His baptism in the Jordan to his Ascension into Heaven, Jesus criticized the politicized Jewish Faith of His day. The Jewish leaders had become divided into the liberal Sadducees and the conservative Pharisees. And our Lord criticized them both, but most especially and most sharply, He criticized the conservatives Pharisees. {Matthew 5:20} “For I say to you, that unless your justice has surpassed that of the scribes and the Pharisees you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

And yet Fr. Altman makes this same mistake of politicizing the Faith. He first of all tells Catholics that they cannot be a Democrat. Why not? He mentions abortion, but many Democrats, not just in Congress but across the nation in other political offices, are Prolife. Then he makes the baseless claim that “Their party platform absolutely is against everything the Catholic Church teaches.” Well, most of what the Church teaches is not mentioned at all in the platform of any party. So that can’t be true. And Democrats are generally in favor of helping the poor, orphans, widows, foreigners sojourning in a… I mean immigrants, health care for everyone, that minimum wage be enough to live on in human decency. That doesn’t sound like a platform that is against everything the Church teaches.

So Fr. Altman’s claims are false. He is conservative, and so he wants Catholics to vote conservative. But it’s not a question of following the teachings of the Church. A faithful Catholic can be Democrat or Republican. The three fonts of morality determine whether an act, such as voting, is good or evil, permissible or sinful. It is not intrinsically evil to vote Democrat, so it depends on intention and circumstances. That is Catholic teaching.

Then Fr. Altman takes his false claim, that you cannot be Catholic and be a Democrat, and he exaggerates it further, to the point of heresy. For he claims the following: “Repent of your support for that party and its platform or face the fires of Hell….” The Church does not teach that supporting the Democratic party and its platform is an actual mortal sin. And as I said, many Democrats are Prolife. Moreover, he does not base these claims solely or mainly on abortion, but on the entire party platform.

But there are other disturbing things about this talk by Fr. Altman. One is that he frames this false teaching — that you must reject the Democratic party and its platform or be punished forever in Hell — within Jesus’ teaching on knowing and loving God. He begins and ends with telling people to know, love, and serve God. that is of course the teaching of Jesus and of the Jewish Faith before Christianity. But the middle of the talk is sinful pride, false accusations, false claims about Church teaching, and false claims on matters of grave moral weight. Then he ends as he began, talking about knowing, loving, and serving God. But one certainly would not be loving or serving God by imitating Fr. Altman’s gravely immoral behavior in the middle of the talk:

* He speaks with extreme pride, as if he cannot possibly be wrong, and as if he has the role to judge and condemn others. He does so far as to threaten all Catholics who support the Democratic party and its platform with eternal punishment. That is for God to judge, not Fr. Altman.
* He rebels against the authority of the Magisterium, which God has given into the hands and the judgment of the Roman Pontiff and the body of Bishops. He calls them “the hierarchy”, and he speaks as if he has the role to oversee, judge, and condemn them.
* He speaks with hatred toward those who do not share his conservative views.
* He does not speak or act like the Lamb, but like a dragon. He is not imitating Christ.
* He lacks humility, faith in the Roman Pontiff and the body of Bishops, and obedience.

In addition, this tweet by Brian Fraga (@brianfraga) points out some additional problems with the video statement:

Statements in this Bishop Strickland-endorsed video include:
– Fr James Martin is a “heretic” who “prances”
– DACA is for “criminal illegal aliens”
– Climate change is a “hoax”
– BLM protesters are all Marxists
– +Gregory is called out 3X for criticizing @POTUS

Now here are some excerpts from the video:

Fr. Altman: “there are way too many people who don’t know the first thing about almighty God — the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit — so truth be told, they do not love Him. And so we can see in the many godless politicians out there, and the godless educational system, and the godlessness of so many sheeples, they most definitely are not serving Him, they are not fulfilling their purpose in life, to know, to love, and to serve God.”

Another disturbing thing about the video is that Fr. Altman’s talk suggests that people who do not accept almighty God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit cannot possibly have the true theological virtue of love. And this would imply — if it were true, which it is not — that they cannot be saved unless they convert to Christianity (apparently, this must also be a conservative version of Christianity). Such a narrow view of salvation is the type of neo-Feeneyism which has crept into the Catholic far right since the reign of Pope Francis began.

“Well, here’s a memo to clueless baptized Catholics out there: you cannot be Catholic and be a Democrat, period. Their party platform absolutely is against everything the Catholic Church teaches….Repent of your support for that party and its platform or face the fires of Hell….”

Fr. Altman is speaking with arrogance and condescension; he is being judgmental and issues a sweeping condemnation merely for voting Democrat. The beginning and end of his talk are the sheep’s clothing. It seems like he is going to talk about knowing, loving, and serving God. But instead, most of the talk is sinful, arrogant, condemnatory, and full of false teachings. As the talk continues, he says this:

“I crunched the numbers and finally came up with a pretty close approximate total of how many Catholics voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012. Zero….There were a lot of pretenders, a lot imposters, a lot of people masquerading as Catholics, laity and clergy alike; there were zero faithful Catholics who voted for that godless politician who had the audacity to blaspheme and say “God bless Planned Parenthood” — the most racist organization on the face of this planet, founded to wipe out black babies.”

He condemns all Catholics who voted for Obama in two elections. Regardless of what their lives might be like, even if they are priests or Bishops, he condemns them as being not real Catholics or not faithful Catholics for their vote. This is contrary to Catholic teaching. You do not lose your identity as Catholic, even if you commit a mortal sin, and voting for a president is typically a matter of judging the circumstances. So a person might vote for either party in good conscience. But Altman disregards Catholic moral teaching, and substitutes this new extremism, where you become non-Catholic for one or two choices, when voting for president. Nothing in Catholic teaching supports this type of claim. It is not Catholic doctrine, nor a sound Catholic opinion. The idea is non-Catholic.

Fr. Altman is not imitating Christ when he utterly condemns Barack Obama for one statement that he made. He may have made that statement with a sincere but mistaken conscience. It does not make him godless. This type of extreme condemnation of another human person for a single act is not the way that Christ behaved. Consider the way that our Lord treated the Roman Centurion, who probably believed in the Roman gods and goddesses; the way He treated the woman of Canaan, who was neither a disciple of Christ nor a Jew; the example He gave of the good Samaritan, who had incorrect religious doctrines (as a Samaritan) but is the example Christ placed before every generation to imitate. The type of condemnation Fr. Altman proposes, for a single act of voting or a single public statement is contrary to the examples given in the Gospel from the Ministry of Christ.

Fr. Altman also references, in passing: “the climate change hoax”. Certain points are debatable, especially what will happen when in the future with Climate Change. But the science on this is not only so well-established that it can’t be entirely wrong, but also certainly not a “hoax”. The term “hoax” implies a deliberate deception. Science is continually revising its understanding, but usually with a progressions of small to large improvements, along with some corrected errors. Revisions of various degrees and even outright errors — speaking about science in general — are not hoaxes. A hoax is “something intended to deceive or defraud” []

What Fr. Altman and many others on the far right are doing is much the same technique, applied to a different purpose, as the liberal media (at its worst) often does: exaggerating, distorting, and even repeating known falsehoods of others, in order to obtain notoriety, a larger audience, and favor with those who believe these errors. To the same intended end, many leaders on the far right are using harsh condemnatory language toward their philosophical or theological opponents, so as to gain a larger audience and so as to cause that audience to adhere to them more firmly.

Next, Fr. Altman attacks the Bishops. “Shame on the hierarchy who covers up truth through a conspiracy of fear. Listen, if there wasn’t truth spoken, nobody, but nobody would be listening to me for two seconds.” Read again the paragraph I wrote just before this one. It is well-known that if you tell people what they wish to hear, they will be attracted to that speaker. It is well-known that speaking falsehoods that are in favor in a particular group or subculture gains them as attentive listeners. So Fr. Altman’s claim that, if he were not speaking truth no one would be listening to him for even a brief time is contrary to a well-known truth about listeners and speakers.

Also, how does Fr. Altman explain that his liberal opponents, whom he thinks are not speaking truth, have obtained so many listeners? No one would listen to him, if he weren’t speaking truth? Does he think he is in Heaven, where that is true? His assertion is a ridiculous plainly-false claim.

“And if all that is accomplished by speaking up, is to let the proud and the arrogant in the hierarchy realize that the faithful are suspicious and they have good reason. And that they need to straighten up, and straighten out this mess that they created….”

Fr. Altman attacks the hierarchy because he knows that many conservative Catholics are angry at the Bishops. He is telling his audience what they wish to hear. He is playing on their biases and misguided emotions. He is using the worst traits of his audience, to gain their support.

Then Fr. Altman ends with this assertion: “our purpose in life is to know, love, and serve God.” His talk was not about knowing God, loving God, loving neighbor, or serving God. His talk itself is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Speaking In General

The faithful should learn to distinguish wolves from sheep. To do so, you must set aside your political biases and your preferences for certain theological points of view, political or social views, and disciplines. Be able to recognize a good person and a good teacher in someone who does not share your views. Then, look to see if the words of the person show a love for other human persons and a respect for those who are different in ideas, behavior, background, etc. Love of enemies is found only in those who either have the infused theological virtue of love, or who are cooperating with actual graces so well as to be not far from obtaining or returning to the state of grace in love, faith, and hope.

So many leaders on the right, so many of the papal critics, are angry at all who disagree with them, and they seem to think they have the right to treat their philosophical opponents with contempt and denigration. They also like to use exaggerated rhetoric, so as to play on the emotions of those whose support they seek. They make shocking, exaggerated, false, even malicious remarks, so as to obtain notoriety and to develop a group of listeners who will follow them closely.

We are about to enter a difficult time. Be very careful whom you accept as a shepherd or teacher.

Edited (9/11) to add: Catholicism has become politicized today, to the point where many Catholics will support Fr. Altman regardless of his sinful behavior and his open disobedience and contempt towards the Bishops. They support him because they view him as a leader of their religious party, just as a Pharisee would support another Pharisee over a Sadducee. It was a problem in Judaism during the time of Jesus’ ministry, and it’s a problem now. I can’t imagine that I would ever support someone who behaved so sinfully, regardless of their views on any issue.

Ronald L. Conte Jr.

Note added 9/12: Please do not waste your time posting comments which show a lack of Christian charity. They will be deleted. I let one such comment be posted below, to show an example of the type of error. Catholicism is not a political party. Love of neighbor should be our guide above all else. You are not justified in treating anyone with contempt merely because they disagree or you have labeled them a liberal or they criticized a person of the same perceived “party” as you.

Note 9/13: My main criticism of Fr. James Altman’s words: the lack of Christian charity. And those who are defending him in the comments here show the same lack of charity. The lack of the theological infused virtue of charity. Are you Christians? So many malicious nasty remarks (most of which have not been put through the moderation process, so I’ve seen them and you haven’t). In this way, you implicitly condemn Fr. Altman. For when you attack his critics with malice, you behave like him, and you show the error of his ways in your behavior. But those who love Jesus, love others, including “enemies”. Who taught you to hate those with the “wrong” views? It wasn’t Jesus.

NOTE: Comments are now closed on this post. You had your chance.

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40 Responses to My Critique of Fr. James Altman

  1. erm6 says:

    Thanks Ron for writing this article. It is most unfortunate when conservatives “treat their philosophical opponents with contempt and denigration.” I am particularly disappointed by this, because, in my opinion, there are many ideas of conservative and traditional Catholics which are very valuable from a pastoral perspective, which raise important questions. I also think that some of the ideas that are stereotypically associated with liberals or progressives, might also be valuable.

    I am grateful for the theological writing that you do on this blog. I respect that you are a theologian, and not a pastoral or spiritual guide. I hope and pray that there will emerge co-workers in the work that you are doing, who come in a complementary way with different talents than you, with pastoral and guiding talents, likely priests, who would be on the same page as you theologically, but may come from different pastoral backgrounds, some more conservative and traditional, others more liberal or progressive, but all on the same page with Catholic doctrine under the Magisterium. And then I would like to see them politely debate different pastoral approaches, with mutual respect and all-around submission to the Magisterium, but bringing forward and contrasting various traditional and progressive ideas about what is the best way to teach and guide Catholics spiritually (aiming always to teach them the same Catholic truths, but debating what is the best way) and hopefully it would lead to a fusion and enrichment of the best approaches on how to guide and teach people.

    • tradcat1213 says:

      “It is most unfortunate when conservatives “treat their philosophical opponents with contempt and denigration.”

      Funny, but that is how a lot of liberals treat conservatives. I, as someone more attracted to the EF Mas felt insulted by the Pope when he made the comments he did about those who prefer it. He doesn’t know my interior. I am not even one of the younger generation to whom he refers to.

      ““And I ask myself: Why so much rigidity? Dig, dig, this rigidity always hides something, insecurity or even something else. Rigidity is defensive. True love is not rigid.”

  2. Mike says:

    I dont think aborted babies appreciate your great theology.

    • Ron Conte says:

      Same answer as to the other commentator. I’ve written against abortion in my book Roman Catholic Teaching on Abortion and Contraception. It’s not the only issue. And no matter how strongly Altman or others oppose abortion, they can still end up in Hell for any unrepentant actual mortal sin. In the case of Altman, I watched the video and he openly sinned gravely by arrogance, disobedience to the Magisterium, contempt for Catholics who vote in a way he thinks is wrong, etc.

  3. julie k lamin says:

    It is not true that many Democrats are pro life. If you can make a list of them that do not promote abortion, we would vote for them. There are some but the vast majority are accepting of abortion and have succumbed to the pro abortion lobby who pushes for abortion through birth which has been legalized in many states at this point and they are working hard to legalize in all 50 states. If a Democrat (or Republican for that matter) works to feed the poor and the vulnerable yet supports and promotes the extermination of the unborn, none of their good deeds will be valid since the latter is the most egregious act. It is like a person supporting a serial killer’s acts while feeding the homeless and justifying their “goodness” for feeding the poor. Every person that spoke at the DNC was pro abortion and aggressively so. It is their platform and agenda and they make no secret of it. If you ask Black Lives Matter protestors if they agree with “women’s reproductive rights aka abortion”, they will say yes. So do black lives really matter then? Or just those outside of the womb. Thank you Father Altman for speaking Truth! There is only one Truth.

    • Ron Conte says:

      It is a grave error to replace the Catholic Faith with opposition to abortion. It’s also a serious error to consider abortion to be the only substantial political issue, esp. when there is a deadly pandemic which could kill millions in the U.S. alone within the next 6 months.

    • Roy Morales says:

      Julie, I agree with you. Fr. Altman is making his stand and I don’t think he is disobeying the powers to be in the church. I cannot see how one can say they are a Democrat and a Catholic, while passively letting the overwhelming majority of their party support abortion, gender plurality, and acceptance of sexual acts in same sex relationships. I don’t see many within the Democratic party correcting the errors of the majority. Complicity of those ‘good people’ are not correct in being silent.

      I feel that Ron Conte is biased against Fr. Altman and those who are conservative, as his writing shows it. He speaks of how we are to love one another and show compassion for those who we differ with. While I agree with that, however, I find that we have become too soft. I think that tough love is needed, like when Christ threw a fit with the tax collectors doing their business in the temple or when he scolded St. Peter to get behind him referring to St. Peter’s words to him were of the devil. Sometimes, this is exactly how parents should discipline their children, even in anger or stern posture. This can be a good thing.

      We are seeing the results of a generation raised with the lack of discipline in tough child rearing of the past. Many do not have humility and fear toward God, thus, defining their truth and distorting the teaching of the Church. Fr. Altman is trying to teach that tough love and the only Truth, even it it disturbs the flock. The Church of Nice has done a poor job in forming my generation and the next and many don’t know their faith.

      Yes, I do believe that abortion in itself should be the ‘line in the sand. Catholics who are Democrats should not vote for any candidate that supports it, period. The foot has to come down at some point until the other side understands the Catholic position. I feel Catholics have allowed the abortionist to succeed because we have not fought back. So, if that means not voting for a political candidate because he/she supports it, then so be it. The Democratic party needs to understand there are fundamental issues that cannot be tolerated by Catholics. If any party that does not comply with the basic Catholic ‘line in the sand’ then it’s time for a new party. It was hard to imagine at one time how the Catholics were a force to be reckoned with!

      Traditionalism and conservatism is a good thing. It balances out the opposing forces from getting too powerful. The inverse of that is true as well. We are in a time when that inverse has the power and the Conservatives need to take back what was lost. Lastly, we cannot separate Church and State. This has been going on for centuries before the Protestant Reformation. It was then, that the Protestants that pushed for separation of Church and State to weaken the Catholic Church. So, centuries later, we see the chaos that has been created of that separation of Church and State. The Protestants have divided and conquered the one true Church, created themselves over 33K variants or denominations. There is great instability in our governments due to separate of Church and State. What is interesting is that our very own Constitution was founded on Catholic teachings (disguised by our Protestant Founders) of freedom, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Therefore, Catholics cannot be outside of politics and the basic teachings of the Church like in abortion, same sex relationships etc. are essential to our society, Those very teachings were brought forth with love of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are Conservative values that need to be in every facet of our lives. Today there is a war between the good and evil. Fr. Altman is the Warrior we need to lead us into this battle.

    • T.Briones says:

      Thank You for your comment. I totally agree with you. And for the record, I’m not a right winger, I vote independent. Fr. Altman is a good man.

  4. Thomas Mazanec says:

    Such a narrow view of salvation is the type of neo-Feeneyism which has crept into the Catholic far right since the reign of Pope Francis began.

    I heard such sentiments from the Catholic Far Right well before Pope Francis.

  5. King Robert the Bruce says:

    Good post Ron.

  6. Bob says:

    Mr. Conte, thank you for your post, which is so eloquently written. I followed the same path to the video as you did just yesterday and have been struggling how to respond. Your post sums up my (and I am sure countless others’ reactions). Mr. Altman’s arrogance and narcissism made evident by the dancing, music (I think one commenter said it was to Beethoven’s 7th) is not emblematic of the Jesus I know. I truly had to ask myself rhetorically, “This is an ordained catholic priest?” The video is very painful to watch. So I thank you again for your admonishment of this man. We all need to pray for his healing.


    • Robert Mayer says:

      I agree with Conte. I appreciate such a nuanced critique to Altman’s hate-filled diatribe. Thank you.

  7. Linda Mele Johnson says:

    I don’t have the writing skills necessary to tell you how grateful I am to read your words. You truly seem to know and appreciate the Catholic faith. I was so appalled to see Fr. Altman’s hateful rant and couldn’t believe such judgmental anger and hatred could come out of the mouth of a Catholic priest. Thank you so much for explaining things.

    Many devout Catholics cannot understand how a pro-life Catholic can be a Democrat. I’d like to explain, as I am one. First and foremost, I believe, as is taught by the Catholic Church, that all human life, from womb to natural death, is important so I vote for the party that I believe will save the most lives through health care, gun control, peacemaking, negation of the death penalty, and help for the poor. Secondly I believe Joe Biden when he says he is personally against abortion, but I don’t believe Donald Trump because he was always pro-choice and there is evidence he offered his second wife an abortion. Yes, the Democratic platform is “pro-choice” but I am not, nor is Joe Biden (personally), whom I believe. No one can know for sure. Finally, I don’t believe legislation can change the number of abortions and I’m amazed that anyone does. It can only be changed by helping a pregnant women to keep her baby. I belong to an organization called Precious Life where I donate money and time each month. The volunteers belong to both parties. Also, when Jesus was asked what to do when there is a conflict between religion and state, he said “Render unto Caesar ….” Joe Biden is personally against abortion but when he took his oath of office, he promised to uphold all U. S. laws. Unfortunately abortion is legal in our country. If it is made illegal, will that save even one unborn baby’s life? I don’t believe so as there are just so many ways to do the terrible deed. This is an abomination that will be prevented by education, changes of heart and lots of support – financial and otherwise. And yes, we might have to help support some of the babies once they are born.

    Only God can judge so perhaps Fr. Altman truly believes he is doing the right thing, or maybe he is ill. I hope prayer and counseling will help him to see that he has caused great scandal in the church.

    Thanks again for your help. It is so appreciated! If I wrote anything that is contrary to Catholic teaching, please inform me. Thanks.

  8. christine greenberg says:

    Jesus laughed, he went to weddings and family gatherings. Jesus also exhibited righteous anger………if He were here, that anger would come out against those who run on the platform of “choice’ (aka abortion), same-sex marriage, men becoming women, women becoming men through mutilation, HE would certainly says something…..PC or not. The majority of priests today are wimps, not worthy of the title ‘Father’.

    • Ron Conte says:

      It’s wrong for you to judge the majority of priests, and wrong to engage in name-calling.

    • Joseph A Berg says:

      I see very few warrior priests. I don’t see arrogance and condemnation in Fr Altman’s homily. I see the words of the Bible, a desperate warning and a great love of Jesus.
      The truth hurts sometimes.

      “Silence in the face of evil is evil itself.
      God will not hold us guiltless.
      Not to speak is to speak.
      Not to act is to act.”
      Dietrich Bonhoeffer – 1906 – 1945

      Bishops and priests choose Godly.

  9. MARY ann VENESKY says:

    I agree with Fr. James Altman who had the courage to speak up to the hierarchy of the Catholic Church about the hypocrisy and those who say they are pro-life, yet vote for a political party who’s platform is in direct opposite of our Catholic beliefs. Has anyone read the Democratic Party Platform,? Please do, and if you feel the party platform is in agreement with your Catholic faith and values, pray and let your conscience be your guide.

    • ron simeone says:

      totaly agree and stand with Fr Altman. Who is this Conte? Probably another toxic victim of Vatican II.
      Conte should tell someone who cares.

    • Ron Conte says:

      The above comment shows a lack of Christian charity. Catholicism is a Faith, not a political platform, and it’s wrong to speak and act as if it were a set of political positions. Worse still, is the idea taken from disordered modern politics which says that you can be nasty and malicious towards anyone with a different position on a political, moral, or theological question, is contrary to Catholic morality and the example of Jesus. They sin gravely who treat their philosophical opponents with contempt and denigration.

      [1 Corinthians]
      {1:9} God is faithful. Through him, you have been called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
      {1:10} And so, I beg you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that every one of you speak in the same way, and that there be no schisms among you. So may you become perfect, with the same mind and with the same judgment.
      {1:11} For it has been indicated to me, about you, my brothers, by those who are with Chloes, that there are contentions among you.
      {1:12} Now I say this because each of you is saying: “Certainly, I am of Paul;” “But I am of Apollo;” “Truly, I am of Cephas;” as well as: “I am of Christ.”
      {1:13} Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

      The above is what has been happening in the Church lately. The Faith should not be politicized, with people supporting their “candidate” regardless of his views, because he is of their political party.

  10. Andrew Schott says:

    List the names of pro life Democrat politicians who have rejected and returned political donations from Planned Parenthood, George Soros and all other anti life organizations. “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’”
    List the names of Pro life Democrat politicians who voted to reject pro life judges and defund planned parenthood. “They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long,”. “ Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.”

    As for BLM, read their platform. It is on their website. Listen to their leaders. They call themselves “trained marxists”. No one is casting judgements, they have publicly declared their opposition to the Church by opposing its precepts.

    You are wrong and I can only wonder why you would not have known this already.

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