“Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”
Canon law gives two ways to be in schism, refusal of submission or refusal of communion. The Pope cannot refuse submission to himself; this submission is not required of him. Neither can we substitute Christ for “the Supreme Pontiff”, so that the Pope would have to be submissive to Christ. All Christians must be submissive to Christ the Lord, the Son of God, but refusal of submission to Christ would not be schism, but apostasy. For to reject Christ is to reject the Christian faith.
The members of the Church subject to the Pope can be divided into the Bishops, who are successors to the Apostles, and the rest of the faithful. This division is not arbitrary, as Christ chose twelve apostles, with Peter as their head, thereby establishing the Apostolic College as a permanent structure essential to the Church’s constitution. Anyone who refuses communion with the body of Bishops, or the body of the faithful is in schism, as the grace of God never permits either body to fail in faith to the extent of rejecting the Roman Pontiff by refusal of submission or communion (as a body). Then the grace of God also does not permit any Pope to refuse communion with the body of Bishops or the body of the faithful, as any such failure of faith — by the Pope, the body of Bishops, or the body of the faithful — would break the divine constitution of the Church, contradicting the dogma of indefectibility and the apostolic nature of the Church.
Indefectibility means that the Church can never go astray or lead astray. But it also means that the Church can never lose Her essential characteristics: one, holy, catholic, apostolic. IF the Bishops as a body and the Roman Pontiff were to defect into apostasy, or heresy, or schism, the Church would no longer be apostolic, as the Apostolic College would have defected. And since the Pope and the Bishops are the Teachers and Rulers of the Church, if they defect, then the Church as defected. For if the Church loses anything essential to Her very nature as established by Christ, She would have defected from the Lord’s design and purpose for the Church, and to the gates of Hell could be said to have prevailed — all of which is impossible.
Sometimes the enemies of the Church claim that the Pope and Bishops can go astray and lead astray, while the Church supposedly remains indefectible, due to a few Bishops and a minority of the faithful remaining true to, well, what always turns out to be a distorted concept of doctrine and discipline. But such a concept of Church abandons the Apostolic College and its head the Roman Pontiff as essential to the nature of the Church, and rejects the very words of Christ in the Gospel on Peter and his successors, and the body of successors to the other Apostles, and the body of the faithful.
[Luke]
{22:32} But I have prayed for you, so that your faith may not fail, and so that you, once converted, may confirm your brothers.”
The Church has ALWAYS interpreted the above verse to mean that Peter and each of his successors has the charism of a never-failing faith, AND that this charism has, among its holy purposes, the strengthening of the body of Bishops, the brethren of the successor of Peter, in that same rock-like faith. In fact, the dogmatic definition of Vatican I on papal infallibility states this interpretation as follows: “as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith.” Jesus prayed that Peter and his successors would never fail in faith AND that every Roman Pontiff would confirm his brethren, the other Bishops, in their faith. That prayer can never fail.
But the same phrase “confirm your brothers” (or brethren) can also be interpreted as the role of the Pope to confirm the body of the faithful in their faith. For the Church can never be Shepherds (the Bishops) without a flock (the rest of the faithful). And so the faithful, too, only as a body led by the Pope and Bishops, have a never-failing faith, as long as they remain submissive to and in communion with the Pope and the body of Bishops. And this is what Cardinal Levada has stated clearly:
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Levada: “The Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI, in an Audience granted to the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal William Joseph Levada, on January 14, 2011, approved the decisions of the Ordinary Session of the Congregation, and ordered their implementation. This action by the Holy Father should be understood in virtue of the mandate given by the Lord to Simon Peter as the rock on which He founded his Church (cf. Luke 22:32): ‘I have prayed for you, Peter, that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned to me, you must strengthen the faith of your brothers and sisters.’ This Scripture passage has long been applied to the role of the Successors of Peter as Head of the Apostolic College of Bishops; it also applies to the role of the Pope as Chief Shepherd and Pastor of the Universal Church.”
The Pope confirms the body of Bishops as well as the body of Bishops. Cardinal Levada explains this well by speaking of the Apostolic College, with the Pope as its Head, and the Universal Church both of which are necessarily always confirmed in a never-failing faith by the Pope, just as Christ ordained, just as Scripture and the Church have always taught.
In addition, removing the Pope, or the Pope and the body of Bishops, from the indefectibility of the Church (by claiming that they can go astray) leaves the Keys which Christ gave to Peter and his successors without anyone to hold and exercise them. Only Peter holds the Keys. Peter can exercise the Keys by his sole authority. He can also exercise the Keys with the Bishops as a body. If the body of Bishops and the Pope were to go astray, the Keys would lose their power, as no one could exercise them. A few scattered Bishops, having rejected the Pope and the body of Bishops, cannot exercise the Keys in the place of the Pope, as such Bishops lose all jurisdiction by refusing submission to the Pope and communion with the body of Bishops (See Satis Cognitum 15). And if the Keys were to lose their power, the gates of Hell would have prevailed, which can never happen.
[Matthew]
{16:18} And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
{16:19} And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven.”
Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum, n. 14 (last paragraph).
“But since the successor of Peter is one, and those of the Apostles are many, it is necessary to examine into the relations which exist between him and them according to the divine constitution of the Church. Above all things the need of union between the bishops and the successors of Peter is clear and undeniable. This bond once broken, Christians would be separated and scattered, and would in no wise form one body and one flock. “The safety of the Church depends on the dignity of the chief priest, to whom if an extraordinary and supreme power is not given, there are as many schisms to be expected in the Church as there are priests” (S. Hieronymus, Dialog, contra Luciferianos, n. 9). It is necessary, therefore, to bear this in mind, viz., that nothing was conferred on the apostles apart from Peter, but that several things were conferred upon Peter apart from the Apostles. St. John Chrysostom in explaining the words of Christ asks: “Why, passing over the others, does He speak to Peter about these things?” And he replies unhesitatingly and at once, “Because he was pre-eminent among the Apostles, the mouthpiece of the Disciples, and the head of the college” (Hom. lxxxviii. in Joan., n. I). He alone was designated as the foundation of the Church. To him He gave the power of binding and loosing; to him alone was given the power of feeding. On the other hand, whatever authority and office the Apostles received, they received in conjunction with Peter. “If the divine benignity willed anything to be in common between him and the other princes, whatever He did not deny to the others He gave only through him. So that whereas Peter alone received many things, He conferred nothing on any of the rest without Peter participating in it” (S. Leo M. sermo iv., cap. 2).”
Notice that the “divine constitution of the Church” absolutely requires the “dignity of the chief priest”, the Pope. But if the Pope were to fail in faith by apostasy, heresy, or schism, he would not have that dignity, and the necessary “union between the bishops and the successors of Peter” would be broken, scattering the faithful. Clearly, such a case is contrary to the divine constitution of the Church and Her indefectibility, which require the body of the successors of the Apostles, led by their head the successor of Peter, teaching and ruling over the body of the faithful. This description by Pope Leo XIII, “Christians would be separated and scattered, and would in no wise form one body and one flock,” is something that can never happen, as the Church would have lost Her indefectibility and Her essential nature as a faithful flock led by faithful Shepherds, all led by the successor of Peter. Moreover, the Church is the body of Christ, with Christ as Her eternal head, and so Christ can never allow His body the Church to be separated, scattered, and to become no longer one body or one flock.
For these reasons, the Roman Pontiff can never defect from the true faith, not by apostasy or heresy or schism, nor in any other way that wicked sinners might claim. Then neither can the Bishops as a body defect from the true faith. For the indefectibility of the Church protects Her supreme shepherd and teacher, as well as the body of the successors of the Apostles, and then also the body of the faithful. The shepherds and teachers of the Church cannot go astray or lead astray, and the body of the faithful, by the grace of God, always remains faithful as a body.
Therefore, it is always false and contrary to dogma to claim that the Pope or the body of Bishops or the body of the faithful have failed gravely in faith, by apostasy or heresy or schism, or have defected from the true Catholic Christian Faith. This unity in faithfulness of the Roman Pontiff, the Bishops as a body, and the faithful as a body — even if some Bishops and some of the rest of the faithful go astray — is a witness to the unity of the Catholic Faith and proof that those who reject the doctrine and discipline of the Pope, Bishops, and faithful are the ones who have defected.
Ronald L Conte Jr



Hi, Ron. If you will permit me to comment here again, I have a couple of questions.
1) If I have made statements in the past that serve to charge grave errors or failures of faith to any pontiff, but my reason for doing so was lack of knowledge of the Deposit of Faith (invincible ignorance, in other words) – Vatican I, for example – then I am not guilty of formal schism or heresy, am I? After all, I did not meet the three conditions of mortal sin. I was caught up in the world of rad trad religion, having never yet been exposed to any media that defended Pope Francis.
2) You say that a pontiff cannot teach material heresy, because even a material heresy would do grave harm to the Church if taught by the Pope. That stands to reason. But what about simply saying something materially heretical, in an off-the-cuff moment, to a partner in dialogue? He’s not using his capacity as teacher of the Holy Faith and guarantor of the Magisterium in such a case. He’s just experiencing a mental lapse where he forgets his Catechism for a brief moment. Isn’t that a possibility? Specifically, I am thinking about the Holy Father’s comment to reporters about nuns in Africa being permitted to use artificial contraception.
Thank you in advance, Ron. God bless!
1. What you describe is not formal heresy or formal schism, so you would not be guilty.
2. It is an open question as to whether a Pope can inadvertently and without exercising the Magisterium at all (neither infallibly nor non-infallibly) utter a material heresy. An off-the-cuff remark is not formal heresy, as it is not obstinate nor deliberate.
Ron, I saw a traditionalist using the story of “Quo Vadis” to say that a Pope can fail in faith. what to answer?
Saint Peter became Pope at the Ascension, not before. So the papal charism of never failing faith only began when his pontificate began, at the Ascension of Christ [First Council of Lyons; also Pope Pius XII, Mystical Body of Christ]
Does “as a body” mean: a majority of the persons who are members?
The term “the body” is not the same as majority. I think the vast majority always remain faithful, due to the grace of God. But then an Ecumenical Council can be valid with representatives from the body of Bishops, whose number is far short of the majority.
Thank you !